Talk:Renewable resource/Archive 2

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This is an archived version of Talk:Renewable resource. This page is decommissioned and not intended for discussion.
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I didn't know that wood is renewable[edit]

Wood is from trees which are from sapling that drop from trees. However, sometimes a tree doesn't drop any saplings. Thus, wood is not renewable and all the things that consume wood/wood products are NOT renewable-- 22:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

There is a small probability that a sapling will fail to replace itself. However, this is countered by the more likely possibility that it will produce more than one sapling. The average number is greater than 1, so in the long run the number of saplings will increase. Once you have more than about four saplings, the probability of ALL of them failing to replace themselves becomes vanishingly small. It is safe to assume that over any finite number of iterations, it will not happen.-- 01:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Renewable but requires nonrenewable items in fully renewable products all the way around?[edit]

I've noticed that the gold tools have been in the wood section for quite some time, but I'm not here to ask for them to be removed. I'm sharing my opinion on renewable products. As I read it, renewable but requires nonrenewable does specifically state that it needs a nonrenewable resource to be able to get them, but however they ARE renewable and once you have that one thing they become fully renewable. I don't necessarily see the point of isolating the nether items and other items in that section from the above table's renewable products, because once you have that one thing that makes it renewable, its renewable. And in order to make those things completely nonrenewable, it would take a LOT of time to remove all access to it legitly, plus a little bit of smartass-ism mixed with stupidity. Another reason I think this, it doesn't show the full range of items that can be renewably crafted or smelted. People always readd gold tools and other things to fully renewable products in the top section, and I think that's because they think it's missing information. Not all the people that come here know about that, so I think it would be best to add gold tools, eye of ender, magma cream, and other stuff just for the sake of ALL people. It would save them from taking the time to add an edit and be undone, save us from undoing all these edits, and keep these annoying back and forth revisions from happening. Funky3000 19:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree, that section is quite useless. one could argue that wheat belongs in that section, because it requires dirt, or cactus because it requires sand. it's kinda pointless√Onion=Shallot 08:53, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Dirt and sand aren't expended. Portals require resources to be expended one way or another in their creation. I'm just going with what has been agreed on. Personally I think this whole page is useless as it only really applies to modded maps like skyblock --Moxxy 15:38, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
I just thought of something. Can't you find obsidian in npc villages? That way, making a portal wouldn't consume lava. It could be lit by placing wood on one side, then lava on the other. After the portal is lit, the lava could be retrieved. Then the portal is made without consuming nonrenewable resources, and everything in the nether could be moved back to the fully renewable section. Please tell me if there are errors in my logic. Bluemagic123 02:41, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
You may be able to get lava in an npc village, but you need to explore to find more villages, which is the whole point of non-renewable-ness(ignore the grammer)Jack1197 04:13, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Experience orbs?[edit]

Why are experience orbs on this page? They are separate entities than items. And even if they do belong on this page, surely they don't require nonrenewable resources to be obtained. Bluemagic123 02:29, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

While they are not items, this page is not about renewable items. It is about renewable resources. Orbs are resources. They are also in that section because you need an enchantment table to USE them, or else they are useless. Funky3000 13:32, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
Using that logic, music discs should be moved to the same section because you need a diamond to make a jukebox to use them. This page is about what you can obtain. Bluemagic123 23:21, 24 April 2012 (UTC)

Portals don't NEED any non-renewable resources except for lava[edit]

Should all the mentions of portals requiring flint & steel and diamonds be removed to the notes section, perhaps, or listed as not strictly necessary? After all, you can mold and light a portal without using either... lava, along with any flammable block (there are many renewable examples: wood, wool, etc.), can be used to create the fire to light the portal, bypassing the need to use flint from gravel. Marksmanship 20:52, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

If you can find a lava lake 5 deep, you don't even need a bucket, making it renewable even since before zombies dropped iron! JamesTheAwesomeDude 02:30, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
but lava is not a renewable resource, ccommon, but not renewableJack1197 04:15, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
True, but with trading, we can sell things like wheat to farmers, buy eye of ender from priests, activate the portal, and mine the obsidian platform because the platform regenerates. Then you can buy diamond picks from blacksmiths and then it doesn't require nonrenewable items at all. :D Funky3000 04:26, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I see what you did there, so you get obsidian from the end in order to travel to the nether?Jack1197 07:56, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Yep. :3 That's the renewable way, I'm sure you wouldn't actually want to do that in game. :P Funky3000 12:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
No reason why you can't... get some Eye of Ender from trading with priests, find a dungeon, activate the portal. Neat. Saves all the bother of finding a Nether Fortress which can take for ever. PhilHibbs 22:19, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
But how would you get a villager? By curing a zombie using a weaknesspotion and a golden apple, the problem with that is that gold is not renewable without the nether nor is a brewing stand.--MinecraftChrizz (talk) 13:41, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Villagers spawn naturally in the overworld (and are even breed-able), for this page to work, you have to assume you are given a sizable starting area (large enough for some starting resources, but finite); otherwise you could say cactus is non-renewable because you have to somehow acquire a cactus first. Cultist O (talk) 18:49, 6 October 2013 (UTC)
lava may not be renewable, but it's not consumed either. Kind of like wheat requires dirt which is limited, but the dirt isn't consumed JMSterling 28/Feb/14

This page needs some serious organization[edit]

This page has some serious flaws, regarding the difference between "fully renewable" and "requires nonrenewable." First of all, doesn't cobblestone and everything plant-related REQUIRE nonrenewable resources? I mean, they need lava, dirt, or sand. It doesn't matter whether they're consumed or not; they REQUIRE nonrenewable resources. Now, let's say we really are going be whether the resources is consumed or not. First of all, the title of "requires nonrenewable" is wrong. Because clearly, cobblestone and plants REQUIRE nonrenewable resources. So the title of that section should be changed to something along the lines of "requires consumption of nonrenewable." And even then, nether mob drops shouldn't be in that section; nothing needs to be consumed to make a portal. No lava needs to be consumed to make obsidian; you can find obsidian in npc villages. Also, to light the portal, place lava on one side of the portal, and wood on the other side. Eventually, the portal will light, without anything except wood being consumed. So either way, this page needs major edits. Bluemagic123 05:26, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I agree on the title change. And your new way of lighting a nether portal is interesting, if it can be confirmed then we will change all nether drops to fully renewable--Yurisho 06:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
I say we leave it the same title, but we just make one section (Besides the "Planned" section, that's entirely separate) and put everything we can continue to collect forever and ever with no stop or loss. That way we get a full visualization in each material of what can be renewably crafted (such as gold swords, by just looking at the wood we don't know gold tools are renewable, but when we look at gold we can see that gold tools are renewable). Also by that, we don't have any argument on what goes where. I remember cobblestone and plants being moved to "renewable but require nonrenewable" because they need dirt, but if you are too stupid to not realize that dirt and sand and lava sources that continue to make flowing lava are infinite resources then you really should be here in the first place. If we combine it to one section, then everything is in one place and we don't need to have all these useless arguments of what goes where. Funky3000 12:55, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, I know for a fact that many people use this method of lighting a portal in skyblock, where it is impossible to get flint. I think it has something to do with the fire having to spread through the frame to get to the wood. And I agree, it would be much more convenient if everything is in the same section. Bluemagic123 02:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Technically, Nether portals are activated when a fire block is created inside the portal frame; it doesn't matter what the source of the fire is. -- Orthotope 04:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
So then, it's pretty much confirmed that no nonrenewable resources need to be consumed in order to make a nether portal. Because you could make it so that fire from lava spreads onto the side of a wood block that makes it so that the fire is inside the portal. So, we could either move the nether items to the fully renewable section, or merge the two sections like Funky suggested. Bluemagic123 01:52, 2 May 2012 (UTC)
Don't forget that "not consumed" doesn't mean "not necessary." You still need the Obsidian, and it's still not renewable, it's merely that we've chosen to consider it the same way we consider growing cactus in sand or crops and trees in dirt. Marksmanship 02:17, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
If crops and trees aren't renewable, then that leaves almost nothing. (Mob drops and the products thereof that don't need a crafting table) JamesTheAwesomeDude 02:25, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Making Obsidian destroys lava. Dirt doesn't need to be made. --Moxxy 05:35, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
How does that contribute anything to the discussion? They're both nonrenewable. (dirt and obsidian) I don't understand what you're trying to say; perhaps if you rephrased it, that might help. You probably have a valid point, but I can't figure out what it is. JamesTheAwesomeDude 16:03, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
You do not need to consume lava to get obsidian. Just look for npc villages. Some of them have obsidian in their chests. Bluemagic123 05:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
Bluemagic's got it. Basically you can use the blacksmiths' Obsidian to make a portal. At the end of the day you can't get it back without using diamonds, but this bypasses consuming lava and the Obsidian itself isn't actually consumed either. Admittedly this is slightly different than sand or dirt, because you can get those back without using non-renewable diamonds.
Of course, this leads to the question of whether or not you can still consider it "not consumed" when there's no way to get it back the way it was (item form in a chest) without using a non-renewable resource. Dirt and sand can be put back exactly as they were (on/in the ground) without using a non-renewable resource; Obsidian can't. So I suppose we're still stuck with a dilemma here. Marksmanship 18:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)
For organizational purposes, we should just consider it not consumed. After all, a main goal of this discussion is to clean up the page, not give each item with special rules its own entire section. (remember the section that we once had with nothing but obsidian in it?) If an item has an unusual property, harvesting condition, etc., we should put it in the category that best matches it, then add a note. A real world example would be the Platypus: it lays eggs, yet nurses its young. Did we then create an entire new section for one single species? No, we put it in the best match (mammals,) and made it well known that they are an exception. JamesTheAwesomeDude 21:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Villager trading[edit]

I noticed that jeb is giving some raw chicken for some currency. This means that even renewable items can be given to get currency, and then to possibly buy currently nonrenewble items? If this is the case, I think a section for villager trading would be a good idea, in case things get too cluttered. Heres a few of my speculations that probably make sense. Like a LOT of sense.

  • Jeb said "This is how I perform experiments on Testificates" and they are separated in chambers and each has a profession now in the snapshots.
  • By separation, logically each villager trades different things
  • Knowing that, blacksmiths may sell what is found in their chests, including obsidian and diamonds.
  • Seeing that Jeb put a chicken into a slot, and an arrow points of a currency in a slot, this shows you can get currency from them too.
  • Seeing as he's giving chicken, you can give renewable items too.
  • Using these renewable items, currency is renewable too.
  • Since currency is renewable, this means buying obsidian and diamonds are renewable.
  • Gold would be FULLY renewable too, so the ingots/nuggets can have the note taken off

Seeing as how much this could affect, I think a new section would be the best to do. With selling, fully renewable things are: currencies (likely rubies seeing as the gem style and the "ore" in the background), obsidian, diamond, gold, and much more. Your opinions? Funky3000 00:01, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Just wait for the update. --Moxxy 01:07, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Looks like SOMEONE doesn't like preparation and opinions. :P Tbh I'd rather be prepared then have mass conversation and disagreeal when SOMETHING should be done at the release. I, as a completionist, want to have things done as soon as possible. I don't want to wait for hours or days waiting for a conversation of something so little to be agreed on. With the 3 days we have until Thursday, we can accomplish a lot in terms of actually being prepared. So, why not help the cause instead of being so blunt? Funky3000 01:17, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I've created the trading article seeing that the preview is released. Feel free to add content to it, but I suggest discussing them first in the Talk page there, and waiting until more info is released. - Asterick6 (talk) 05:09, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I guess the big question is whether or not Jeb will limit the availability of rare stuff like Diamonds for trading. If you can trade an indefinite amount of Chicken for cash, and can buy an indefinite amount of Diamonds if you have enough cash, then Diamonds would be renewable... but Jeb might implement something to limit how many Diamonds we can buy or how much poultry a villager will pay for before going broke or realizing it doesn't need five stacks of food. Marksmanship 17:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Or there will be a sort of limit of how much you can trade with a villager during an amount of time. Sanoth 17:59 22 May 2012 (UTC)
I think that it's important that the stuff you can get by trading have its own section, things that you can renew without trading should remain in its current section, probably with a star/indicator directing to a note that says "these resources can also be renewed via trading." or whatever. Cultist O 21:03, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, (which I probably am, ;) but don't Testificates make offers for all items? If so, then all items would be renewable via trading, therefore making this section useless. If, on the other hand, they only trade some items (with at least one being nonrenewable,) then we should see whether there are enough non-renewable items to justify creating an entirely new section. (e.g., if diamonds turn out to be the only nonrenewable that they offer, then add diamonds to the renewable section w/ a note. If they open up a whole slew of nonrenewables, however, then adding a new section might be wise.) JamesTheAwesomeDude 21:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Obsidian needs to be added to the "planned renewable" section[edit]

Seeing that diamond tools are to be made renewable, now obsidian is too. Mattpoppybros 21:24, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

This is also true of potions, ice & mushroom blocks, as experience and glass are also to be renewable via trading
Mushroom blocks, no. You still need diamonds for the enchantment table. But ice, yes. You can't silk touch it yet, its in the wrong section. Obsidian too, and potions. Obsidian will be actually renewable when the update comes out. Funky3000 23:22, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Right, forgot the enchanting table... Cultist O 07:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Is ice renewable?[edit]

If silk touch will still be non-renewable, how is ice planned renewable? Renewable water freezing isn't new, shouldn't it count? You can even get it where you want it in a renewable way, (pistons or freezing in place in the correct biome.) Cultist O 07:00, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

While ice spread isn't new, the actual collection of the item is only able to be done with silk touch as of 1.3.Funky3000 10:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
In the discussion regarding experience orbs however it was decided that resource did not mean something that went into your inventory, or even that you could use for anything classically useful. It is possible to put as much ice as you want wherever you want it in a completely renewable way, this to me means it is renewable. (If this is not the case then water is also non-renewable, and should be changed to water bucket.) It could be true however that pistons (redstone) being planed renewable currently puts ice in the same boat as plants and whatnot. (For reasonable production/use it requires but does not consume a single non-renewable.) Cultist O 11:32, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
This page is about things you can collect renewably. You can collect items, blocks, and experience orbs. While XP isn't collectable to the inventory, they ARE collectible. Using the world to do things does not make it renewable. While we can push a whole bunch of ice over to make more ice and push it around, it is not currenty COLLECTABLE. A resource is always collectable. Another good example is snow coverings and silverfish blocks. They are always generated around the world. Snow golems and weather can make snow coverings on the ground, but those can't be collected with silk touch, and therefore why we do not have them as a renewable resource. Same with silverfish blocks. Having a cobblestone or stone generator machine near a silverfish spawner can make infinite silverfish blocks, however you cannot collect them, therefore why we do not have them on this page. Funky3000 12:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
That's an unfortunate interpretation, but is probably the right move being that as you point out it keeps tech blocks off the page, as well as most entities. I will change water to water bucket then (as the water you can make in the world does not count.) Cultist O 09:15, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
if you're going to get into technicalities, then cocoa beans should be the strange cocoa bean model skin, as cocoa beans cannot be placed into the real world as-is.
Screw the technicalities. they'll only complicate everything. lets try to be flexable, and use our heads. rather than use dead-set logic. honestly. :T --Kizzycocoa 13:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Obsidian will be fully-renewable, it seems[edit]

  • To harvest it you need diamond pickaxe, which is fully renewable from villagers
  • Water is needed, it's fully renewable
  • By exploiting redstone wire to obsidian bug (redstone also becomes fully renewable from villagers) you can convert it to obsidian with flowing lava (flowing lava is fully renewable also, it can be made infinite times from source lava block)
  • It can be noted that obsidian is fully-renewable, but requires single acquiring of lava source, which is unrenewable.

Xeoxer 14:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

You only need one lava source for an indefinite amount of Obsidian, though, so it's equivalent to using dirt to grow crops, trees and reeds or sand to grow cactus.
You can also produce Obsidian without lava by making and destroying portals, of course... I think that's described in the Obsidian article.
At last! My full chests of zombie flesh are useful for something! Marksmanship 20:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Don't forget massively oversized automatic wheat farms. :P And a great deal on cooked meats! <3 Funky3000 20:55, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Redstone isn't fully renewable though. Neither is lava. Pouring Lava on top of still water gives smooth stone. Otherwise Obsidian would be fully renewable. The nether portal deal isn't exactly efficient, and in multiplayer, it can cause linkage issues with other players' Obsidian portals, thus may not always be a viable renewable resource. As for villagers selling redstone, you shouldn't count redstone as renewable, as villagers can stop selling it (forcing you to kill them hoping a new villager procreates a redstone selling villager.) Iyeru 21:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
No need to kill villagers; removed trades can be added again through the normal procedure. -- Orthotope 00:05, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
You mean through re-trading over and over hoping to get redstone again? Or do you mean procreating? If it's the latter, procreating, if you remember, doesn't happen if there's enough villagers already. Iyeru 05:32, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
By trading; villagers add new offers at random, and can add one that was previously removed. It's not as efficient as it used to be, but the process is renewable. -- Orthotope 05:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Sand renewable with piston glitch[edit]

This video shows how to exploit a piston bug that gives access to unlimited amounts of sand (and gravel, probably). --GALAKTOSTalk – Win8βx64, Java7x64, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 10:19, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Added to the “Renewable, but require nonrenewable resources” section. —Fenhl 22:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

My complex edit[edit]

I changed the the lines describing the contents of the planed section to better describe their contents, the table description for planned renewable said the table only had items currently in game, which excludes emerald and whatnot. The "other planned items" row said that it had all planed items that would be renewable, made from existing, this implied that it should have included the stuff like the ender chest, made from stuff that will be renewable, now it does not imply this. Finally I mentioned the alternative methods of farming obsidian through use of a link Cultist O 15:25, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Silk touch enchantment[edit]

It states under the heading for huge mushrooms that they are obtainable fully renewable as trading with a priest gives a chance for encanted tools from levels 5-19 which silk touch can be obtained at level 19. There for wouldn't it mean that ice and other block be classed as fully renewable now 11:31, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

If that is true, then they will both be completely renewable, but are not. There is just a discrepancy in the method column between whether to list the current almost renewable way, or the coming completely renewable way. Cultist O 12:54, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
But then shouldn't we have a consistent format across the board instead of having some items that are listed as per the coming renewable way and some as the current almost renewable way. This way it would not confuse many people if we just either have the current updates or the snapshots 22:55, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes, question is only which way... The problem is that the section is essentially an upcoming section which implies they should be listed as they will be. The silk touch ones however are partially renewable now, so it makes sense to list them that way. I think that ideally both should be mentioned, but theoretically it shouldn't be too long before the update in question comes out, making all this mostly irrelevant. Cultist O 01:29, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Nether items note can be removed in 1.3[edit]

You can buy eye of ender from priests to activate an end portal, then going through said end portal generates an obsidian platform which you can mine with a diamond pick bought from a blacksmith. The obsidian generates again if you go through again making this use only fully renewable resources. The end portal can never be removed by tools or explosions meaning that access to the end can never be stopped unless you turn structures off. You can then use this fully renewable obsidian to build a nether portal without using nonrenewable resources such as lava or diamonds, therefore removing the need for the nether portal tag. Funky3000 01:24, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Some "renewable" items are barely so....[edit]

Being a rare drop, and arguably trading with villagers, shouldn't put stuff in the same category as wood and meat. Notably, Zombie Pigmen dropping gold a nugget at a time (even with occasional ingots) isn't going to help you with much beyond Golden Apples, eventually. Even with regular Zombies, you pretty much need a mob farm to get a reliable supply of iron shovels and such. As for villagers, not only do they need to be found (and prevented from falling into caves and the like), but you can't rely on getting any given trade offer. Being "renewable" shouldn't include "you can get one of these occasionally, if you're lucky and/or determined".

Accordingly, I propose two new categories: "Rare Drops", and "Purchasable items", so as to separate out such items without distracting from the truly infinite resources. --Mental Mouse 16:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

No matter the case, they are still fully renewable. We don't need useless sections for those few specifics. This page is meant to be basic and to the point, we don't need to split everything up. Funky3000 18:14, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
It's hardly "useless" to differentiate between stuff that's unlimited in ordinary play, versus stuff that's technically unlimited if you devote your game to farming it. And that is "to the point". Claiming that gold tools are renewable because they're occasionally dropped by a Nether mob, or that diamond tools are renewable because you might find a village with someone offering them in trade... that's useless, and obscures the realities of normal play. More to the point, it makes the distinction nearly meaningless.... --Mental Mouse 16:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
This discussion invariably tracks right back around to: What was the original purpose of this page?
My answer to this question is: "You know that point where you've explored all the cave systems around your house, for a good 20 minutes in all directions, and you're starting to run low on resources for whatever reason? What could you *actually* just get more of no matter what? That is what this page is for. Now, if people don't agree, then indeed, it can stay as-is. However, by that logic, Gold Nuggets are probably not renewable. Unless you build a mob farm in the nether, but that's for another page. Thus, the page could be split in two (or we could remove the second half I'm about to propose) and have a "Simply Renewable" subsection, or two sections, "Simply Renewable" and "Complexly renewable". The metric would be, IMO, can you actually get this resource in *useful* quantities in *reasonable* time. E.g: 1 stack in <1 hr. Darkid 18:44, 10 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm fine with calling them something different, but if you use "complexly", we'll have to defend that spelling forever from people mis-fixing it. ;-) How about "Simple Renewable" and "Complex Renewable"?. I'd still want to distinguish "Tradable" from "Complex Renewable": Bluntly, the trading system is a recent addition that's due for major rebalancing, and having access to villages may not be guaranteed even with the new village-recovery options (however they work). I now suggest (1) a "Tradable" section for things that are renewable (or available) only through trade, and (2) a footnote for other items to the effect of "this item can also be purchased from Villagers". I'd say "mob farm in the Nether", or even "hunting Z.P.s", is probably the epitome of "Complex Renewable". Yes, the other Nether drops do count as renewable (we might want another footnote for "with Nether or Nether Fortress access"), but gold is a bit different, because it is mostly used in quantities vastly larger than the Z.P.'s piddling drop, and the normal way to get it is mining. (36 nuggets for a clock, 54 for one recipe of powered rails.) --Mental Mouse 10:05, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
I agree, this page needs more sections. It's rather cluttered in it's current form, and the "Requires non-renewables" only has ONE ITEM. I think there should be four sections. A "Fully Renewable" section, a "Renewable, but requires non-renewables" section (Though imo, buckets and the similar should be put here, as iron is only renewable via rare drops.), a "Renewable, but only from rare drops" section and a "Renewable, but only from trading" section. This should simplify the page and make it easier to find what you want, because currently it's a MESS. NeonJ 21:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
It looks like someone went ahead and re-org'ed the page... looks good, and the tradable stuff is no longer making a mess of things. I'd still like to separate out the rare drops.... --Mental Mouse 22:13, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd say no, but that's just me. Personally I don't want another small section which contains a few things. Funky3000 22:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Well, I just did it... against "another small section", I offer "the difference between killing 6 or 8 spiders vs. killing 40 or 50 zombies". I'd also like to see the redstone, glowstone, iron, and gold products pulled out of the "renewable products" lists (especially the mammoth wood/saplings list), but that's a separate step -- first, lets see if this change stays put, or if too many people hate it. --Mental Mouse 22:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
From what I've seen in the past, pulling out products of other resources is a big no-no. It makes too many 'undo-battles' and readditions that get undone to be worthwhile. It also doesn't express the full amount of products that can be given from a resource. Like I said in the first section, this being a different example now with different resources, a person could buy redstone from a priest, realize it is renewable, and realize pistons are renewable. They could look at the wood section, realize that pistons aren't in all the places they can be, and add them into the proper sections. They get undone, and they undo the undo because they know in reality it should be in all places, and it just escalates from there. Sure it isn't guaranteed to happen right away, but to be completely honest, it will happen eventually, and when it does happen, it gets really annoying to see the edits in your watchlist that mean nothing to you. Funky3000 23:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Of course, that comes back to the basic question of categories and "what is renewable". I still think that "only through trading or rare drops" shouldn't count as renewable, and that should be reflected in the product lists. At the same time, I'm not willing to make myself crazy about it. Frankly, if consensus is that this page is only for advanced players who've "owned" the game, beaten the End, and just need to check what they can still create in the mined-out kilometers-wide quarry that used to be their world... then I'll wash my hands of it. Personally, I'm more interested in keeping track of what stuff is truly unlimited without extreme measures, compared to what resources impoverish the (explored area of) the Minecraft world. Going to the Nether and back to create (more) obsidian is something I consider more-or-less acceptable, because you can do that fairly quickly and without insane risks. Going to the End to create obsidian, I consider over-the-top. And as I've said, I'm deeply suspicious of trading, because I think it's due for major rebalancing, and availability of trade items is fundamentally iffy on two separate counts: Villages tend to die out quickly (and the recovery requires brewing), and random trade items can take major grinding to get hold of a specific wanted item. ETA: Brewing capability is itself a fairly tough case, because finding a Nether Fortress can be Very Difficult if the world generator doesn't like you -- and as I said, trading for Blaze Rods is iffy.. --Mental Mouse 15:00, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Hm, on the topic of the large categories, if we could figure out a way to make the animated lists like on the smelting page, but not have the border, we could shrink many of these down considerably. Funky3000 03:00, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I am going to add to the request for "Things that can be renewed by player or common actions" (crops, cobblestone generators) versus "Things that can be acquired by rare actions" (rare drops, trades) versus "Things that can be acquired by uncommon actions" (normal mob drops).
I don't consider gunpowder to be as renewable as wheat just because you can get a small supply from creepers, for example.
Equally, I don't like item/mob grinders, and I don't think it's appropriate to imply that you should have a giant mob tower dropping goodies in your lap for free.
Keybounce 18:05, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Nonrenewable resource[edit]

For completeness that article should be created. There we could list nonrenewable resources like sand and clay and finite resources like the dragon egg, end stone, cracked and mossy stone bricks (only 3 strongholds). -- 14:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

I personally agree, but this is a fairly controversial issue (see here). For an idea what would be on it, see here. (Work in progress) Cultist O 04:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Renewable Enchantments[edit]

Most enchantments are renewable, at least on certain objects. I am proposing that rather than try to list them all here somehow, the Enchanting/Levels page mark the enchantment levels attainable through alternate methods. This is not the only page that will be benefited. Join the discussion!
Cultist O 15:18, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Obsidian, sand, gravel, and flint are all renewable[edit]

I know there is a glitch to make sand renewable ( I don't know if that should be listed on here but obsidian is fully renewable from destroying and making more portals and you can get diamond tools from villagers to dig it up. I would also suggest a different section or page about renewable rescources from villagers or without villagers, this might confuse people who play on survival maps and cannot obtain or find villagers.

The definition says without exploiting glitches, and obsidian is already listed. I agree with the villager section. Cultist O 01:38, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Not being able to get villagers won't be a problem in 1.4. Zombie Villagers can spawn from time to time so even if you generate a world without structures, trading is still possible by curing a zombie villager. Funky3000 17:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
thanks but some resources like red stone would be has hard to get as it is to find zombie pigmen in the over world (99.999...% improbable) so another section would be nice also considering that on some maps (such as skyblock) you can not brew, thus making it 100% impossible to get redstone and such.
You can find a blaze spawner and random blaze in a nether fortress in skyblock, it simply requires you to break the self imposed rules of not building a bridge to the mainland, which isn't exploiting a glitch in the game and qualifies for the purposes of this section. 22:25, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
@Funky3000, if you have structures off you can't cure them because you can not find nether fortresses.
Wrong, they still generate. Check out the structures page. Funky3000 04:06, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Gold Nuggets[edit]

I've noticed that gold nuggets are grouped together with gold ingots in the rare drops section. This kind of confuses me, because gold nuggets are not rare drops, and thus should not be in the same category as gold ingots. Could someone explain why gold nuggets are in the rare drops section? Bluemagic123 07:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Mental Mouse and his OCD moved them there. :p Personally I think gold nuggets are good there, granted it isn't the best place, but you can't get much gold at all out of nuggets. That said, they also go good with ingots in the group, because they are both convertable between each other. I wouldn't really like to see nuggets in one section, and ingots in the other, with the same products aside from which has nuggets and ingots. It'd look cluttered. As another personal opinion, I think trading should be the only category besides the main 2 or 3. Rare drops are renewable, fully renewable at that. It doesn't matter what needs lots of work or little work, this page is about what is renewable in general, so I don't know why MM thought it was a good idea to split it up anyway. And when I saw the times, he moved the sections without even getting the yes or no, and then he said he did it in the talk page after the fact. Funky3000 10:41, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
You state exactly why I moved gold nuggets with the ingots -- they're both "gold", trivially interconvertable, and single nuggets are not really useful as such. And further up I describe why I feel "rare drops" deserve to be a separate category... it boils down to making a distinction between stuff that's trivially breedable, or at least often dropped by the relevant monsters (e.g spider eyes or ghast tears), and stuff for which you need a mob farm to get a steady supply. And that comes down to the purpose of the page. My feeling is that splitting out the rare drops makes the page more useful, for players who aren't at the "total control of their world" stage. --Mental Mouse 12:08, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

"Crops" needs attention[edit]

The crops section needs attention from someone that knows 1.4.2 well enough.

"cake" is one of the graphics; I know that's not a crop.–Preceding unsigned comment was added by Keybounce (Talk|Contribs) 17:54, 11 November 2012 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

It is not attempting to imply that cake is a crop. "Crops" is the name of the growing wheat block, and the column you are seeing cake in is for "Renewable Products". Cake is a renewable product of crops, as are wheat, bread and cookies. Perhaps we should see about renaming it "seeds" as that is the attainable item. Cultist O 12:11, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

enchanted books make all enchantments fully renewable by trading[edit]

My understanding is that villagers can trade you ANY enchanted book, and that therefore any renewable tool (which all are through trading, zombie pig killing, cobble farms and/or tree farming) is renewably enchantable (using a rare-drop-renewable anvil) with any vanilla enchantment, or set of enchantments. If this is true, I would suggest pulling the renewable but consume non-renewable method listing for enchantments. Cultist O 08:53, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

By which you mean you can repair any tool as many times as you like with the anvil. Yes, that's true. But, it still requires non-renewable. Darkid 12:41, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
No it doesn't. Farm renewable wheat and sugarcane. Turn sugarcane to paper. Sell wheat and paper to farmers and librarians for emeralds. Take said emeralds and buy an enchanted book from a librarian. Kill some iron golems that spawn due to them (village may need modifications with renewable wooden doors). Craft an anvil with the iron. Craft a renewable tool or buy one from a blacksmith with extra emeralds, and add the enchanted book to it. Bam. You now have a fully renewable enchanted tool, whether it be Efficiency I or Sharpness IV Looting III Fire Aspect II. Renewable items have more links to each other than you think. Funky3000 13:55, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
Can't you make the argument of any renewable tool can be renewably repaired (XP is free) and get any enchantment on it (anvils are "free"). Darkid 14:11, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
And this is why I emphasize the distinction between "simple" farming, and rare-drop farming, not to mention trading. For starters, each particular enchanted book -- spell and level -- is a separate offer from a librarian. I'm not even sure if they can offer more than one enchanted book at a time. So you get "renewability" for a specific book, not for "whatever you want". Similarly for blacksmith and butcher tool/armor sales -- hope you've got someone who will sell you the right tool/armor piece for that book! And farming iron golems for an anvil's worth of iron definitely falls under "extreme measures": First consider the amount of modification needed to turn a town into a golem farm (you weren't planning to fight them, were you?), then consider that each golem drops 3-5 ingots, and you need 31 for the anvil.
You know what isn't renewable? Time. The time and effort needed to build and run an rare-mob farm, or even a regular kill-your-own farm, time to collect rare drops to useful amounts, time and effort to preen a village's trading offers... all of these make a difference. The time cost is the real distinction between "common" and "rare" items, that is "how long will it take to get me some of those". And it's just silly to ignore that time factor in game balance, in favor of "is there some conceivable way you could make it? Well then, it's renewable!". --Mental Mouse 23:29, 16 March 2013 (UTC)
The problem with excluding something because it's hard, time consuming, or rare to get is that it is way to subjective. I for example have an iron golem farm in my main survival world, because it is less time consuming long term than mining iron. Further more, building is more fun to me than mining. So anvils are more readily renewable to me than wood (which must be chopped and planted rather than accumulating in chests. Having an iron golem farm already, it's pretty easy to pull villagers out, to force them to breed. Now you have as many trade options as you want. I agree that it should be (and is) listed under the trade section. You would never consider for a moment moving ghast tears or fish out of the renewable, even though I have been trying for months to build up my supply. During which time anyone with the know how could have chests upon chests of iron, and client crashing numbers of villagers.
Furthermore, you might use this chart for developing a resource light survival map, in which case the whole point is to make people think hard, and build long to get resources that are normally plentiful. The difficulty is why we list the methodology in the rightmost column. Cultist O 00:58, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of enchanted books, there is a picture of an enchanted book next to sugar cane. Enchanted books are indeed renewable, but you can't get it the renewable way using sugarcane because an enchantmenttable is not renewable since it uses diamonds to craft. So the picture of the enchanted book shouldn't be next to the sugarcane. --MinecraftChrizz 20:05, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Why are splash potions currently listed as renewable?[edit]

This isn't even a farming issue: splash potions use up their bottles, and Sand->Glass->Bottles is non-renewable. --Mental Mouse 20:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

I believe the argument, which was unfortunately put on my talk page, was that it somehow is confusing to newer players if something that can be made partially renewably (glass can be traded for) shouldn't be listed in the "fully renewable" section even if it required trading. Darkid 22:44, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
Glass bottles are renewable through killing witches OR trading. Cultist O 01:16, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Oh yeah, I forgot about trading for glass. Well, that sort of thing is why I asked instead of just editing. --Mental Mouse 02:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

carpets; non transparent backgrounds[edit]

I don't understand the way the renewable resource images work, but why do the ones for carpets have grey backgrounds? Cultist O 19:50, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Probably a caching issue on your end; the grid images (such as File:Grid Blue Carpet.png) initially had grey backgrounds, but were replaced with transparent ones. -- Orthotope 20:08, 21 April 2013 (UTC)
Right, shoot, I always forget to check that... fixed the issue, thanks. Cultist O 00:02, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Misleading information about the wither[edit]

In the description at the top it says that the wither can not respawn: because all mobs (besides the Ender Dragon and Wither) can respawn and be killed again Now I know the Wither cannot be spawned an infinite amount of times, but this sentence makes it sound like you can spawn the Wither only once. --MinecraftChrizz 19:32, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

The Wither doesn't spawn on its own, so the sentence is correct, but some better wording would be good. The Snow and Iron Golems would also be worth mentioning - the Snow Golem is renewable, but doesn't spawn on its own; the Iron Golem isn't renewable and doesn't respawn. (or does it in villages? I forgot...) --dgelessus (talk · contribs) 20:47, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
It does respawn in villages, you can also make an iron golem farm to make them spawn. --MinecraftChrizz 16:01, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

What happened to the images for potion of strength and Spruce wood planks?[edit]

They appear to be missing at the moment. Cultist O (talk) 17:02, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you whoever fixed this. Cultist O (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Products of the new fishing mechanics[edit]

I moved the planned renewable stuff to the main body for 1.7, but am unsure of what to do with the fishing stuff. For the time being I've made a new category, much like with villager trading. Can anyone think of a better way? The products of these things (because they include everything that can be made with sticks, string (wool), leather, and potions) is a massive cell, even bigger than the tree products. Should we develop a short hand for the products? Should we split each directly fished item into it's own row (or one for fish, one for treasure and one for junk?) What should the textual link be in the Resource cell(s)? Cultist O (talk) 20:58, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Should a bunch of stuff be removed from trading?[edit]

The definition of the trading table is supposed to be only items which are ONLY renewable through trading with villagers. Based on witches, mob armour, iron golems and fishing, I think that either:

  • the definition needs to be changed (and a bunch of things added)
  • or these things should be removed: Redstone, Glowstone, Armour (chain, iron and diamond), Iron Tools, Enchanted books, Enchantments & Saddles.
    • (This would only leave: Emeralds, Bottles of Enchanting, Diamond Tools, Flint & Steel & Glass.

Cultist O (talk) 21:24, 25 October 2013 (UTC)


Iron golems make iron a renewable resource –Preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 23:01, 28 October 2013 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

Ya, it's listed under rare drops, perhaps it doesn't belong only there in the strictest sense... Cultist O (talk) 01:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
On the other hand, naturally-spawned iron golems aren't particularly common, so it's not as easily renewable as something like spider eyes. -- Orthotopetalk 06:18, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Right, but the title implies that it's only a category for rare-drops, which is definitively different from iron golem common-drops. To me this means that it should be in the other place as well. (Though the alternative of changing the title to match the contents is all-ways an option too.) Cultist O (talk) 06:56, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

New section: Renewable via bugs[edit]

Should there be a new section that contains items that are only renewable via bugs/glitches, for example sand and gravel?

I didn't know mobs could respawn...[edit]

It says that all items from mobs are renewable, as they can respawn. Really? Has anyone really proved this? 03:14, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

It means that all mobs in the game can spawn repeatedly (except silverfish and cave spiders (which spawn repeatedly only from spawners but have no unique drops) and boss mobs).
  • Hostile mobs keep spawning in the dark/nether/slime chunks/swamps
  • Most passives can be bread repeatedly with renewable resources (wheat, seeds, etc) and I think still spawn very rarely on grass
  • Squid spawn repeatedly in water
  • Villagers will keep breeding automatically (up to a point) and can be created from zombie villagers
  • Mooshrooms can be bred with wheat and spawn in their specific biome
  • Bats spawn repeatedly under specific conditions (but have no unique drops)
  • Snow Golems can be built with renewable snow & pumpkins (which are all it drops anyway)
  • Iron golems spawn repeatedly in villages (natural or artificial)
  • Boss mobs (ender dragons and withers) are NOT renewable, but that is mentioned
That being said, mobs with custom NBT data and the like spawned in custom maps etc, are not renewable unless the map creator makes them that way. Cultist O (talk) 20:37, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Elder guardians are not renewable, but thier only unique drop is the sponge.
~From Contrapple 20 px 22:42, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Removal of mushroom stalks[edit]

Do we really need to have the mushroom stalks there? You cannot obtain them in the inventory, so they are not renewable in that way. Unlike experience orbs which can be obtained as experience. Crops are a similar case, as well as double tall grass. Water blocks are also similar, although they can be obtained via buckets. --KnightMiner (user) 00:25, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Unlike crops (which grow and change), and water blocks, which are not directly controllable, mushroom blocks can be created and moved around (pistons). Given that the block exists, and cannot be obtained in inventory, this is as renewable as it is possible to be. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 03:42, 1 August 2014 (UTC)
Then what about monster eggs? They are renewable via a silverfish spawner (from strongholds) and a cobblestone generator. --KnightMiner (t|c) 00:26, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
Yeah, monster egg blocks are renewable to the same extent. You can't silk touch them, so arbitrary location placement is as far as renewable can go. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 00:29, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Should an "automatable" column/section be added?[edit]

Should a column be added to the first section that differentiates automatable resources (such as rotten flesh, melons, gunpowder etc.), resources that require going AFK (flowers, wood, XP etc.) and resources that need to be manually gathered (nether wart, mushroom blocks, vines etc.) but are still renewable? 13:32, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that would be needed. Most any renewable resource can be automated in some way, so the difference is rather broad. --KnightMiner (t|c) 15:32, 20 August 2014 (UTC)