Talk:Dye

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Move to Dye[edit]

The current title implies a gameplay mechanic, but the page appears to be about an item. This page should be moved to "Dye". The BlobsPaper.png 22:11, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Verified: Blue + Yellow sheep does not create green baby sheep. This is true.[edit]

I noticed that someone added a "verify" tag after the statement about blue + yellow sheep will not make a green baby. (or perhaps they meant verify the whole paragraph?)
Current page says:
Dyes can be used on sheep to change the color of the wool. After shearing a colored sheep, they will drop the corresponding color of the wool, as well keep the color of their wool when it regenerates. Breeding colored sheep will result [in] the baby sheep's color to be one of the parental sheep's color, or a resulting color of the combination of both parental sheep's color. Note that the color combining follows the same rules that dyes use - red and yellow sheep can produce an orange lamb. However, blue and yellow sheep cannot create a green lamb.[Verify]

I can verify that this is still true on current official release version (Console edition: 1.8.9). Perhaps someone didn't believe such an illogical system could exist? Basically the sheep breeding works JUST LIKE the dye mixing. If you can mix the two dyes to create a new color, then the same will work with breeding sheep. If you CANNOT mix those two dyes, then breeding those sheep will NOT produce a new color baby. They will produce a baby that is randomly the same color as one of the parents. Yes, in the real world, blue + yellow makes green, but not in Minecraft. Blue dye (lapis) + green dye WILL NOT create green dye. Therefore, Blue sheep + Yellow sheep WILL NOT create green baby sheep. I just tested it and it's still true, so I'm removing the verify tag. Also I fixed a typo. The word "in" was missing from the sentence.

1. Dyes can be used on sheep to change the color of the wool.
TRUE. I just successfully dyed sheep each of the 16 colors. Including white.
You might want to add that you can re-dye a sheep at any time, including dying it back to white. When you re-dye a sheep it simply ignores previous color and accepts the new color you just used on it. There is never any blending of the previous color with the new color. For example, red dye + yellow dye = orange. But if you dye a red sheep with yellow dye it simply turns yellow. It never turns orange.
2. After shearing a colored sheep, they will drop the corresponding color of the wool, as well keep the color of their wool when it regenerates.
TRUE. I sheared each color and looked at the wool name in my inventory. Wait a while and the sheep's regrown wool is the same color as was dyed.
3. Breeding colored sheep will result the baby sheep's color to be one of the parental sheep's color, or a resulting color of the combination of both parental sheep's color. Note that the color combining follows the same rules that dyes use - red and yellow sheep can produce an orange lamb. However, blue and yellow sheep cannot create a green lamb.[Verify]
[TRUE. With clarification...] To clarify the "or" part - If the parent combo CAN create a new color, then it will ALWAYS create that new color baby. It's not a random choice between parent color and combo color. For example: red sheep + yellow sheep will ALWAYS make an orange baby. You will never get a yellow or red baby sheep from that combo. At least, I've never seen it happen and I've done it a lot. You only get the parent-color-baby when a new color combo is NOT possible (such as blue + yellow).
You might reword it to clarify that. Here is an example (I tried to limit how much the original text was changed):
Breeding colored sheep will result in the baby sheep's color to be one of parental sheep's color, unless the combination of both parental colors can result in a new color. The color combining follows the same rules that dyes use - red and yellow sheep will produce an orange lamb. However, blue and yellow sheep cannot create a green lamb.
24.126.103.82 23:17, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

I really have no idea who added the verify tag. It is an easy verification, I just never noticed it was added (the statement is true in the PC edition as well)
I corrected it to "will" rather than "can", along with tweaking the sentence a bit to avoid implying that yellow and blue dye can be combined to get green. Most of the remaining information on breeding sheep will be found on Sheep though. KnightMiner t/c 04:11, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

1.12 World Of Color Update[edit]

It already shows that you can use dye for concrete powder, but dyeable beds aren't said –Preceding unsigned comment was added by Boboopishere (talkcontribs) at 16:12, 12 April 2017 (UTC). Please sign your posts with ~~~~

 Done, thanks! – Sealbudsman talk/contr 16:48, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

New banner colors?[edit]

For whatever reason, the colors for dyeing collars and armor apparently aren't changing in 1.12, but banners are affected. Can we get those added to the table of hex values as another column? Stevethepocket (talk) 05:43, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

Collars, armor and beacon beams are affected, as well as banners. A new table of hex values would be good to get, yes. – Sealbudsman talk/contr 02:02, 1 June 2017 (UTC)
And I see that you have now done so. Thanks! Stevethepocket (talk) 04:48, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Merge all dye articles with this article[edit]

Hi! I think very much that all dye articles should be merged with this page, and all dye pages could redirect to this page instead of having separate pages with same content, about the dye and dye usage, fish, armor, swords, and so are merged, if you have any questions about this, please ask them below.-- Philip57sundfors TALK CONTRIBUTIONS 11:27, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

 Question how would that work for brown dye though (Cocoa beans) as well as bonemeal? jjlr (talk) 11:34, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
The bonemeal and cocoa beans articles can be kept with the content, and other articles can be simply merged and redirected to this page. Other questions, ask them below. -- Philip57sundfors TALK CONTRIBUTIONS 11:41, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
 Neutral I believe it would be expected to provide a draft of the resulting article. I'm having a hard time assessing the benefits and drawbacks of merging dye articles. --AttemptToCallNil (report bug, view backtrace) 11:43, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
it feels inconsistent though, having fourteen here and two on separate pages.  Neutral. jjlr (talk) 11:46, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Yes, 14 here and 2 on separate pages is a big "no" from me. Merging them all also does not work well as pointed out before, you just get a lot of non-overlapping stuff. --Pepijn (talk) 12:27, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
That would be strange, yes, but that's not what they seem to be suggesting. The question is whether all 16 dyes should be on one page, while also keeping the pages for the ones with significantly different uses. (Possibly with the dye details removed and replaced with a link?) On a related note, shouldn't cocoa beans and cocoa be merged, like other blocks with item counterparts (or vice versa)? - Princess Nightmoon (TalkContributions) 13:20, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
I  Disagree with merging, see also the new section I just created: #Change page to be about dyeing only FVbico (talk) 10:36, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
I can see the benefits of merging, especially given the new dye items, however I still feel inclined to disagree. It still does feel a bit inconsistent to have them separate when dyed blocks are merged together, though. - User-12316399 (talk) 13:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
I  Disagree per FVbico. --HaydenBobMutthew (talk, contribs) 13:50, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Change page to be about dyeing only[edit]

With all the separated dye item pages, this page's information on the dyes is mostly redundant.

Additionally, they all have different ways of obtaining, and craft into other dyes, making this the only page to list such items in 1 page; they aren’t identical like wood.

What I suggest is to get rid of the dye item information on this page, to make it solely about dyeing items/blocks; and then move the page to Dyeing (which is a redirect to this currently).

That'll make the information about the items not repeated over several pages.

As for not getting rid of the item pages, the items (mainly lapis lazuli, bone meal and cocoa beans) server other purposes as well, and each dye has different ways of obtaining them; making this page cluttered with information about specific dyes.

Having them separated can also improve the page's usage as a whole; want to find information on coloring, go to Dyes, want information about a specific color, go to the dyes' page.

FVbico (talk) 10:32, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Note that the page, with essentially similar content, was moved here from Dyeing in 2015. The argument for it was that the name Dyeing suggests a mechanic, but the page "appears to be about an item". So what you're suggesting is that the page should have been modified to be about the mechanic, since pages already existed for the items. I mostly agree, although I think there's still room for some item summary information on this page. In particular, some of the dye colors don't have obvious item names; this page could be used to find them. For example, if you don't know or remember that yellow dye is Dandelion Yellow or green dye is Cactus Green, a list of colors and items on this page would be my preferred way to find them. (Alternatively, we could redirect from the color names to the items, as is currently done for Red to Rose red, but now that we have pairs like Lapis Lazuli and Blue Dye, how do you decide which one Blue should redirect to?)
It seems to me that we could eliminate the entire Obtaining section, at least. I suggest replacing it with the aforementioned color list. The Usage section should be pared down to a list of items that can be dyed. The crafting recipes should be removed, and the Dyeing Armor section should be moved to Armor (reversing the current link from it to here). I think the remaining sections should be retained, though I haven't looked as closely at those. Finally, the redirect here from Dyeing needs to be reversed to help people looking for what item represents a particular color of dye. – Auldrick (talk · contribs) 17:05, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with a color list, or rather, table. Basically what I imagine is a wiki table with the first colon being the color name (Red, Black, Blue), second colon the java edition item (rose red, ink sac, lapis lazuli) and third colon the bedrock item (rose red, black dye, blue dye). FVbico (talk) 17:51, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
The Java items still work the same in Bedrock, so I'd suggest just listing all the items in the second column with {{only}} where needed. If you do decide to use separate columns, don't forget the console editions. – Auldrick (talk · contribs) 18:13, 20 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with all of this. Perfect. I just want to add that the overview of how to craft each dye, like this used image, is very useful for the then "Dyeing" mechanics page this will turn into. Although each dye page will explain everything about how to obtain the dye, this page would be perfect for a whole overview like that. – Jack McKalling [ Talk Contrib ] 18:46, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
I agree with FVbico, as we discussed this on Discord. My summation there was to indeed have a color list which lists the names of the colors, and/or the item the color is made from, but I do suggest keeping the crafting recipe to show that there are slight variation as to how to dye various stuff. In other words, replace the Obtaining and Colors section with a color tables as previously mentioned here, and keep/rework the Usage section. My thought is that this page should be the goto page for anything related to Dyeing, and having links directly to relevant other articles. So both the colors used (with items), all dyeing mechanisms, all achievements/advancements, and Data Values should be listed with links for further information. Btw, yes the redirect Dye to Dyeing should indeed be reversed. Holroy talkcontribs 20:53, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

How about this idea:

  1. Leave/move all the Obtaining and Crafting information to the individual dye pages (since those differ for each dye)
  2. Move the Crafting ingredient and Usage details to Dyeing (since those are all the same)
  3. Let the individual dye pages transclude Dyeing or link to it as a {{main}}
  4. Turn this page into a disambiguation page for all the dyes

After all, there is no such item as "Dye" in the game. It really is an ambiguous name. – Auldrick (talk · contribs) 14:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

 Approve. – Sealbudsman talk | contribs 20:23, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 Approve. --AttemptToCallNil (report bug, view backtrace) 20:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 Support This page really needs fixing. – Nixinova Grid Book and Quill.png Grid Diamond Pickaxe.png 22:04, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
So something like User:Nixinova/Dyeing? – Nixinova Grid Book and Quill.png Grid Diamond Pickaxe.png 18:20, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
I would remove the infobox, the page should be about the mechanic, not the items. :) FVbico (talk) 19:19, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Agree, and the lead should be rewritten to start with "Dyeing" rather than "Dyes". – Auldrick (talk · contribs) 21:28, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposal: Get rid of the color classification approach[edit]

The "primary/quasi-primary/secondary" one. It serves no apparent purpose. It has to be changed whenever dyes in game are changed. It has the potential to get problematic if things become different for different editions. --AttemptToCallNil (report bug, view backtrace) 12:44, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

 Neutral. There are primary colors which can only be made from raw materials, and secondary colors can be crafted from the primary ones. However there are only 16 colors of dye, so I don't really think the classification should be kept. Lê Duy Quang (Make some words | Contributions) 13:25, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
That looks like opposition (e: as in, opposition to keeping the classification --AttemptToCallNil (report bug, view backtrace) 15:51, 1 November 2018 (UTC)) to me. Why did you mark this as neutral? --AttemptToCallNil (report bug, view backtrace) 13:54, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 Support. It looks to me like they were added to allow separate sets of table columns for each group, but if we act on the topic above (which seems to me to have reached a consensus), the duplicated Obtaining and Crafting details will be removed and we won't need this section at all. Furthermore, "primary" and "secondary" have specific meanings in color science that is at odds with this grouping, which could lead to confusion. – Auldrick (talk · contribs) 14:25, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 Approve. Perhaps let's keep a small table with the mixing instructions on the Dyeing page though? Certainly not the crafting instructions, but at least perhaps the dye mixing. – Sealbudsman talk | contribs 20:24, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 Support. The grouping make things worse for a reader who, say, just wants to know how to make purple dye. To find that information, the reader would already need to already know how it's made to choose which chart to look in. It's a completely arbitrary grouping and serves no purpose to anyone at all. Further, in-game, there is no reference to different types of dye, so some wiki editor just made this classification up. Runamucker (talk) 14:23, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
 Support. BSkyWcloud (talk) 14:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)BSkyWcloud

Notes for old dyes[edit]

Can someone add notes indicating the older dyes such as lapis and bone meal only work in Bedrock and Legacy Console edition? It could be otherwise confusing to Java edition players. -PancakeIdentity (talk) 23:08, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Proposal: Merge all of the dyes into this page[edit]

The dyes have all been homogenized now. Lapis Lazuli, Ink Sac, Bone Meal, and Cocoa Beans were the only logical reason why they had separate pages in the first place. However, since those four are technically no longer dyes, and the other three with unique names (rose red, dandelion yellow, and cactus green) have all been renamed to simply “red dye”, yellow dye”, or “green dye”, I feel like the dyes should all be merged into in page. What are your guys’ thoughts on this? 184.181.102.188 06:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

All dyes still have unique crafting/optaining information. So no, this would not be a good idea. But most importantly, there already is a different proposal above, Change page to be about dyeing only. – Jack McKalling [ Grid Book and Quill.png Grid Diamond Pickaxe.png ] 08:35, 29 April 2019 (UTC)